I like seeing you guys around the web.


  1. MaddiroseX (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I've been all over the place trying to shove my stuff into peoples' faces- eeer interacting with more communities \o/ Here's what I've found in my travels. These are all completely subjective of course.

    *Google Plus*
    Fun fact, no one knows how to use G+. I certainly don't. You don't. Your brother-in-law who works for Google Plus who says he is "one of the lead developers on Google Plus"? Yeah he doesn't know how to use it either. I know he says he does. Don't trust his lies.
    As far as I can tell, the big problem with G+ is, as mentioned before, the circles. You're either in the microscopic pool of your friends' serials, or you're in the huge ocean of public content. I've had links to Orbital Academy on G+ for about 9 months, and have not had a single visit from them.

    I am so bad at twitter :( I've heard a lot of people have great success with it, but it does involve a little bit of work in a quite unique direction; you have to be pithy and interesting very consistently in small doses. I hear there are wonderful pockets of community all over the place but one needs to do the legwork to find them.

    Reddit is a weird little beast. On the one hand there are a HUGE number of readers to be found here. When first starting Orbital Academy, as a complete unknown, I had spikes of 500 visitors at a time from Reddit. On the other hand, they can be extremely touchy about people who they perceive as 'taking advantage' of them (aka "you're not a real part of our community, you're just here to push your own stuff), and the backlash for that can be intense. I got really turned off of reddit after being shadowbanned (where they make your posts invisible to everyone but you, so that you don't know you're banned, but think that everyone in the community is ignoring you), because the mods of the subreddit decided that since I was posting MY sexy stories to r/sexystories, I must be focused more on my own desires rather than the community. As soon as I stopped posting regular links to OA the readership dried up almost instantly.
    I think it has a lot to do with the fact that mods of subreddits have complete control over those subreddits, and if they feel that you aren't "really" part of the community they have no problem cutting you out of it, without explanation or appeal. On the other hand, I can't deny that they are excellent at providing a gigantic one-time boost of readers. I posted a link to Mage Life there once and I believe Tempest got something on the order of 3,000 views that day.

    I have heard a lot of anecdotal evidence that Tumblr has great communities. Indeed, I've *seen* a lot of great communities from the outside. I just don't have enough knowledge of the medium to find those that might like me. I'll have to use your methods Dennis, see if I don't have more success there.

    I'd always loved reading TVTropes, and it provides a nice steady trickle of newcomers to my serials which is nice. I think they prefer that the content creators don't add or edit their own pages though, so you're a bit at the mercy of your fans when it comes to filling it out.

    Seriously this community is just awesome. A lot of my readers, when I first started out, came from links via other, more well-established serials, and I try to pay it forward when I can. If nothing else, the amount of advice, both given to me and observed, is exceedingly helpful. Thus far this is the only place beyond my comment section that feels like a "community" that I'm a part of, and I love it.

    *Other serials' comments sections*
    You probably wouldn't think it, but I'm actually an incredibly shy person, especially when it comes to commenting on other peoples' serials. I should probably get over this, since I know how much help it can be to have someone starting the conversation on serials where there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of it. *Maddi resolves to comment more*

    *Word-of-mouth, friends, family, etc*
    I wouldn't suggest relying on this to bring in readers. I've been blessed with an EXTREMELY supportive set of friends and family who regularly read my stuff, but while they are probably MY biggest fans they're nowhere near my serial's biggest fans.

    All in all I think DDWebb hit the nail on the head; it can be really really hard to make the time to both write a lot AND take core of the non-writing business. I do maintain that (depending on your end goal for your serial) it *is* important to take care of that business though. The returns on your time investment are just too valuable to ignore. Thanks everyone for the advice on getting into those communities that I've been slacking in; I'll definitely be using your advice to try to nudge my way in there.

    Spurs & Seraphim (ongoing) | Beta Key (complete) | Twisted Cogs (complete) | Orbital Academy (complete)
  2. Unillustrated (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I can't speak for a lot of these. My own natural tendency is to lurk, quiet and patient, until my prey lets down it's guard. But I have seen the comment effect in action from the other side. One of my regular commenters recently started their own serial and I can see a steady trickle of viewers going to them from my site. It's not a lot, likely because my own audience isn't huge, but it's more than I had at the same point in my own story. Don't get me wrong, I've deleted comments that were obvious attempts at reader theft. But someone who regularly makes a real contribution to a story's community will at least earn a glance from the other readers.

  3. Alexander.Hollins (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I do also squee a bit when I see comments from people I follow around this joint, I've specifically gone into forum threads a few places because I see a poster name that's familiar.

    really the only other mas collection place i visit these days is teh forums at giantitp.com although i used to frequent the basement, a weblit forum at http://forum.novaseer.net/viewforum.php?f=8 that discusses a few specific works, it mostly started with a group from Tales of Mu when AE killed comments.

  4. D. D. Webb (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    "I think they prefer that the content creators don't add or edit their own pages though, so you're a bit at the mercy of your fans when it comes to filling it out."

    According to this:


    It's allowed. There seems to be a difference of opinion on how appreciated the practice is, but apparently there are no rules against it except that you abstain from exercising any author privilege (i.e. don't post anything any other reader wouldn't know) and stick to pure description without attempting to gush about your work--try to be as objective and straightforward as you can, in other words. I mentioned getting the idea from Wildbow, who said he put up the original pages for his serials with just a few tropes listed and let the fans fill in the rest. Authors aren't to put in WMG or YMMV entries, which makes sense.

    I enjoy TVTropes very much an am generally aware of tropes both when I see them and when I use them; I could put in fifty entries on my own page right off the bat. I'm debating how much to restrain myself. Aside from selecting out the most relevant tropes, there's also the fact that the more you put in (and crosswick) the more likely you are to get people clicking through, which I have to acknowledge is a big part of my interest in it, aside from love of analysis itself.

    What it comes down to is whether this would annoy the TVTropes community, which would be a big mistake, I think. From reading the site's forums I can't really get a consensus on that. Some people seem to be offended at the very idea; others state explicitly that they have no problem with the site being used for promotion.

    Is a puzzlement.

    The Gods are Bastards Cowboys! Demons! Elves!
  5. Tartra (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    @SGL and Maddirose - Wow. Those are some thoroughly insightful comments! Thank you so much for that! Especially for the TVTropes sections. If I'm going to try and leverage it, a fast-track on the user culture helps a ton.

    I see it as a good way to build name recognition rather than full-out promotion (TVTropes). I found Order of the Stick from the dozens of examples listed on various pages. That got me interested in why it was so popular, and I've been a reader ever since. I agree with D.D Webb if TVTropes is anything like Reddit: it's a place for content to be celebrated and twisted and analyzed and turned over, not introduced, and damn well not advertised.

    I am Tobias Funke-ing it as soon as I finish my next chapter: "Boy, this TOKoR thing's all anybody's ever talking about."

    The Other Kind of Roommate — Like Fight Club meets X-Men meets The Matrix meets Superbad.
  6. SgL (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    Reddit is not really one monolithic site but a string of separate forums with their own rules and such. Self-promo almost always is not tolerated unless you're in a group like /r/marketing where you're there to discuss your product. (Books, btw, are not discussed on /r/marketing :) ) .

    /r/webfiction isn't a proper discussion group but more like a catalog. You can post there but noticed when reviewing it recently that those who were posting constantly in a row might get downvoted. That group doesn't update enough to warrant spam posting every day.

    Overall, though, I'm just there for the cats and dogs in /r/aww. And the occasional review of commentary on /r/gallifrey and /r/anime :D.

    From time to time I find /r/selfpublishing interesting to read. Many folks on there are Amazon /KDP folks and I like to see what they're playing around with to try to increase sales.

    On a side note, I don't promote my stuff every day on social media. I find i t kind of annoying when those I follow only spam their links constantly. I think at most twice is enough on twitter for each posted update -- one as it posts (AM or PM) and then the reverse (PM or AM). If you're a once a weeker, then I don't mind seeing a reminder later in the week because I might not have caught the tweet the first time.

    I have unfollowed twitter accounts that have proven to sound like robots, just spewing out "buy my book" messages several times a day.

  7. Alexander.Hollins (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    OOO OOO OOO!!! http://www.bookcountry.org I haven't been on in a while, but there is a LOT of really awesome writers chatting writers stuff on there.

  8. Tartra (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    Well, I'm giving JukePop a shot. Like I said, I'm not crazy about the Wattpad community. It seems heavily geared towards the Romance genre. Sure, I might dabble in a little unresolved sexual tension, but it's not the be-all, end-all of what I'm writing here. So... well, JukePop (how the hell am I supposed to capitalize that?) has more variety on its front page. I'm in that queue now, too.

    Really, I want people to go to my website. :/ But I'm forcing myself to learn that it doesn't matter too where someone reads it, just that they do and interact with it.

    The Other Kind of Roommate — Like Fight Club meets X-Men meets The Matrix meets Superbad.
  9. Chrysalis (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    Is Jukepop really that helpful for getting readers? The mandatory signup put me off from it, personally, and I could imagine many other potential readers feel the same. I'm not sure there's really any alternative to self publishing with Wordpress or what have you if readers are what you care about.

    I'm getting most of my visits from bato.to (more than from TWF, actually). About two visits a day from someone's reading list on google. Some from the spacebattles forums, and from Reddit for awhile, though that dried up by now. Should maybe go for an actual listing on there.

    In terms of moral support, comments and feedback, I recommend looking at online communities you're active in outside of writing. People who already know you somewhat are more likely to express an opinion about your work and contribute. Gaming and roleplaying forums work well for me. Myth Weavers in particular has been really, really great. Those guys rock!

    Anathema, a web serial about the effect superpowers would have on our world. http://anathemaserial.wordpress.com/
  10. Tartra (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I don't imagine Jukepop to be much different from Wattpad in terms of potential readership. I think the sign-up's a little annoying - who really needs another account somewhere - but it's something that I guess time will have to tell. Wattpad's not bringing in much of a crowd either, but I guess it'll be about how well time tells.

    I'm involved in a few online communities, sort of, but it's the thing where I'm not comfortable seguing into, 'Hey, read my story!' I need to stalk some authors to find out how they did it.

    The Other Kind of Roommate — Like Fight Club meets X-Men meets The Matrix meets Superbad.
  11. Billy Higgins Peery (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I think Jukepop was really interesting as an experiment, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to post there. Yes, it had some success stories. In particular, Nick Bryan and C. A. Sanders -- writers of "Hobson and Choi" and "The Watchmage of Old New York," respectively -- seem to have found the readers they were looking for.

    But for the most part, I think it was a flawed system. People had to frequently hawk their wares on Twitter, they had to get past the annoying login system, and they had to gain people's trust on a website where the vast majority of serials didn't make it past a couple chapters.

    I was still intrigued by the site, mainly because I liked their system, which allowed me to get email updates on several different serials at once. But I had to stop using it for quite a while, because their login was giving me trouble. I'd linked my Jukepop account to my Facebook account, and suddenly an error message showed up whenever I tried to get on Jukepop. FOR MONTHS. Which is a dreadfully long time to have a problem like that, especially in connection to FB, which is such a huge web presence.

    I'm glad Jukepop is doing what their doing. They blazed some trails, and I imagine future web serial hosts will be able to look back and learn a lot from their trials and triumphs. But at the end of the day, I think of Jukepop in the past tense. Because their login system was a failure, and the quality of many of their serials left much to be desired.

    Try it out if that's what you want to do. Experimentation is the spice of creativity, after all. But I don't think Jukepop represents the future of web serials.

    EDIT: Sorry, Tartra. Didn't read your last post before I posted this. (I'm a slow writer when it comes to forum posts.) I think Wildbow has the PR thing down to a science. He mentions that he's written a web serial when it's relevant to the discussion (when discussing writing, usually), and only provides a link when asked for one.

    "Any number of hitlers, are still not my problem." -Tempest
  12. Chrysalis (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    Nothing at all speaks against telling people in your online communities about your story. After all, you're already active there, it's not like you signed up just to advertise. Just make sure not to derail any threads and you're good.

    Anathema, a web serial about the effect superpowers would have on our world. http://anathemaserial.wordpress.com/
  13. Tartra (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    @BillyHiggins - Man... I know other people's successes or failures shouldn't stop me from giving it a shot, but it's always sad to hear that a place was frustrating enough to knock that many off of using it. Well, I'm in its queue now. If it accepts me, great! If not, I guess what I'm hearing is that I'm not getting kicked out of some magical place of eternal and instant success.

    I'll just keep talking to people, then. Eventually I'll hook someone in!

    And just to be clear: I'm only a few months into my serial. I have way more work to do on writing the thing I'm trying to promote than actually promoting it, but as I go along, all this advice is going to be crucial. Don't worry - I'm not crying in a corner and saying, "It's been a whole week! Why does nobody love me?!" :)

    The Other Kind of Roommate — Like Fight Club meets X-Men meets The Matrix meets Superbad.
  14. Wildbow (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I'd be interested to hear what success people have found with Jukepop. Financially vs. the effort that went into marketing, readership, etc.

  15. alex5927 (Member)

    Posted 4 years ago

    I've recently joined WriteOn. I'm still not sure how it's gonna go, but it might work. I'm keeping a backup site for this site (I've only got like six chapters planned, so it's not a huge deal to keep both updated). It seems interesting, but I generally like Wordpress sites. I was also into Jukepop, but after I get my $30 from them (which still hasn't happened; it's been like two months) I'm just gonna pull out. It was fun 'till my English teacher had all of her students vote for it (that just recently came to light as the reason I was #4 in August). I'm also on Reddit sometimes, but I don't get on there very often.
    In response to Wildbow's comment, I would like to contribute the fact that I am supposed to receive $30 for being in the top 10 in August, which came about after my English teacher found out about it and had everyone in the school vote for it. Before that, though, no such luck.

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