Online writing does not exist.

Page: 12


  1. Katherine (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Libraries maintaining online archives? There's a ray of hope! Which libraries are these? Can you point me to examples? I don't think the ones around here can afford that; they've been having to cut hours, staff, etc.

    I'm mostly talking about college libraries. There's actually sites that these libraries "subscribe" to that archive the articles. My own former college, St. Michael's, has a list--BY SUBJECT--of all the different article database sites:

    The one I remember using the most when I was in college (I was a Lit major) was JSTOR. In the case of JSTOR, they have articles archived back from 1665, articles that most college students would never get their hands on if it wasn't for those new-fangled INTERWEBZ.

    Even just talking about storing humanities related articles and images, there's also projectMUSE and ARTstor, both of which I remember using.

    Fun related topics:

    Angry Remembrance: I used to hate my father. Then I learned he was a legend.
  2. Morgan O'Friel (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    OMG. This is the first time I've heard of the way back machine, and that was WAY too much fun. I found an old copy of Larkenia's Flaws that I'd thought I'd lost when my site had gone down. Totally awesome! *goes back and right click+saves all of the old pages*

    Ahem. That said, I'm kinda 'eh' about the web fiction haters. I just don't take them seriously. Haters are gonna hate, and all of that.

    People were saying that there was no market for e-fiction for as long as I can remember it existing. Thinking of e-books and blogs, in particular, I remember that for years people said that they were silly and ephemeral, that no real author would write them, etc. And then suddenly the Kindle and other big name e-readers came out and now many of the big name bookstores are trying to cater to them (if they don't have one of their own out, already). Suddenly every local newspaper in my area has a website with e-articles and blogs, to the point where they're cutting down on hard copies of the paper and focusing on the internet version.

    As for things disappearing once their gone: I just don't think it's that simple (as the Larkenia instance above shows). I've known authors who've taken their work offline for various reasons, only to have it passed around decades later by people in docs, pdfs, htmls, etc. I've seen fans rally together to post websites and create archives for things that would've otherwise been lost, and I've seen websites that have been abandoned a decade ago standing strong today.

    Even if the internet were to shut down tomorrow, I'd still have copies of some of my favorite web fiction saved to things like my e-reader, phone, and computer for reading at a later time. I know that many of my friends do the same thing.

    When one of my websites went down a year ago, with my computer dying shortly after, I was at a loss, until a reader sent me docs she'd saved of all of the chapters of my stories, so that I could be back at square one. It was so awesome. *shrugs*

    Now, <i>finding</i> things can be a bit tougher when URLS switch, or when content is removed altogether. But, as someone who's looked for rare and out of print books before, I have always felt that it can be just as frustrating searching for print or electronic works.

    Mind you, I'm not saying that all electronic works are well archived. Many websites will come and go with nobody noticing. But then again, I think that many print works come and go without significant fanfare, as well.

    Morgan's Fiction Website - LGBT urban fantasy web serials, shorts, and more.
  3. Chris Poirier (Moderator)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Is a long-term archive something WFG should offer?

  4. Chris Poirier (Moderator)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Note: I've posted a similar question to the nascent Web Fiction Writers Guild, as something it might do:


  5. S. D. Youngren (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    This was exactly the reaction that print comic artists had for web comics around 1999-2002. Now instead of dismissing online comics, they're attacking it as destroying their market. So... that's something for everyone to look forward to!

    That's odd. In all the stories I hear about print comic artists, they're always very supportive of the aspiring and up-and-coming, in whatever format. Is there something no one's telling me?

    Rowena's Page: — "This is my life, Mom. Not a Jane Austen novel."
  6. S. D. Youngren (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Thanks, Katherine. I knew about JSTOR, but didn't know they had any humanities-related stuff. I'll have to check out projectMUSE, ARTstor, etc.

    When I was in college I did all my research the old-fashioned way, which wasn't old-fashioned at the time, if you get my meaning. Whew.


    Rowena's Page: — "This is my life, Mom. Not a Jane Austen novel."
  7. Jim Zoetewey (Moderator)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Shelley: A few newspaper comics did have it in for webcomics. I remember one in particular who had some kind of feud with Scott Kurtz (ok, that's not a surprise) after he attempted to get into print newspapers by letting people know that he'd be willing to let it appear for free.

    It made sense for Kurtz (the increased visibility would have helped sell books, etc...), but was perceived as an attack by some people whose income came from appearing in papers.

    One (can't remember the comic) actually created a character who self-published her comic on the internet, allowing the writer to lampoon webcomic creators on a regular basis.

    This wasn't true of everybody though.

  8. Eli James (Moderator)

    Posted 9 years ago

    To put this in perspective: records the history of the entire Internet, and they have petabytes of data stored on disc right now (with about 4 terabytes written to disk per day). While I agree with you that they're slow, I would also add that they've got a lot on their plate.

    Chris suggest that we start our own archive. I'll probably be contributing code.

    PS: The IA also runs

  9. ubersoft (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    These days most print artists are at least neutral-trending-somewhat supportive of webcomics (though there's still a large disagreement over whether it's possible to make money off it). However, barring a few notables (Bill Holbrook does two print comics and is one of the original online comic pioneers) when people first started to notice it, it was dismissive ("bunch of amateurs") or reactionary ("this is going to DESTROY COMICS").

    That's almost always the way people familiar with something as it currently exists reacts to something that is changing it. Because when you're already familiar with something -- especially if it's something you like -- having to re-learn it is in a pain in the ass.

    (I remember when Scott did that. I thought it was a pretty ballsy thing to do.)

    Curveball (Updating)
    A Rake by Starlight (Updating)
  10. S. D. Youngren (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Thanks again for the links, Katherine, but they don't pan out . . . not for Meanjin and not for a lot of other online literary publications either. Here's what Project MUSE says about their criteria for inclusion:

    ProjectMUSE wrote:Unfortunately, Project MUSE is unable to include journals which are freely available online. MUSE does not want to charge its library customers for content that they can get for free elsewhere on the Internet.

    JSTOR reviews titles and decides, just as a magazine editor would, which meet their criteria. Among the factors they consider:

    historical significance of the title
    recommendations from scholars and librarians
    citation analysis
    number of institutional subscribers around the world
    relevance to a scholarly audience

    ( )

    So depending on how they feel they might or might not ever include Meanjin--I doubt, for instance, that an online-only publication has many "institutional subscribers"--but they make it clear that they are being very selective, not comprehensive. As far as I can tell they currently offer a total of 58 titles in their Language & Literature section. That's not a huge number.

    Chris, I think a Web Fiction Guide archive would be a good idea. Thank you.


    Rowena's Page: — "This is my life, Mom. Not a Jane Austen novel."
  11. S. D. Youngren (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Jim Zoetewey wrote: Shelley: A few newspaper comics did have it in for webcomics. I remember one in particular who had some kind of feud with Scott Kurtz (ok, that's not a surprise) after he attempted to get into print newspapers by letting people know that he'd be willing to let it appear for free.

    I have to admit I wasn't familiar with Scott Kurtz, but the more I looked into him the less surprising the idea of such a feud became. Ack!

    Thanks for the info.


    Rowena's Page: — "This is my life, Mom. Not a Jane Austen novel."
  12. Alexander.Hollins (Member)

    Posted 9 years ago

    Chris, simply put, YES. There about about a dozen novels worth of short stories that I first read in the 90's on aol and geocities websites that are long gone, that I know I'll never read again, and that makes me sad (of course, that means I can shamelessly steal from my memory of them, but hey)


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