Review Request: How To Avoid Death On A Daily Basis

Responses

  1. mooderino (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    @TanaNari I agree it's possible, my point is allowing it to happen here would prevent me from exploring the themes I'm interested in, so I specifically chose people who haven't made that leap possible. In my estimation, the odds of pulling a hundred or so people from our world and managing to not get anyone clued up enough to do what you're suggesting are pretty good. While you are looking at the probabilities and possibilities, I am looking at the actual facts (since I am the creator of facts in this world) and sadly it just didn't happen (because I didn't want it to).

    @GR - Mysterious being? I don't know what you're talking about (quickly hides his notes).

  2. TanaNari (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Then you could never have selected a single middle school graduate. Because even basic Algebra is incredibly advanced science when looking at a dark ages world.

    Like I said- you want to run the story your way, that's fine. But it is a glaring plot hole of a conceit to use. One which deserves an in story answer.

    Author of Price.
  3. GeneralRincewind (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    @mooderino But lets do the math: You say in your webserial that the visitors have been coming for 400 years. And that usually the number(This is extrapolation) of visitors is between 20-8. Take the average of those two numbers 14, and multiply it with 400 and you get 5600 vistors. 5600 people is a lot, and you can't tell me that none of them had even a fragment of a fragment of knowledge about modern, industrial or even renaissance tech. Even if they didn't, the mere fact that they know of possible technologies means that they can tell that to scholars in the world and have them figure it out. Because hindsight is 20/20 and it's easier to figure something out if you have a basis to work from. So thus this world should at the very least Renaissance tech.

  4. mooderino (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    @GR - They come every leap year, so every four years. And I think I said it's been for around 100 years, but I may be misremembering.

    @TN - as for algebra, if the people there don't know about it they can't ask, and if the people from our world don't consider it important, they wouldn't particularly feel the need to sit everyone down and explain it to them. I've never found algebra useful in my day to day life, I don't think I'd rush to tell everyone about it, especially if there were ogres chasing me and whatnot.

    I do understand what you guys are saying, but it's not as big a deal to me as it is to you. It's not that I don't think they have information that could revolutionize this world, it's that they don't know how to implement it or are even aware that they should. Just as people have access to all sorts of information in this world and are still miserable.

    If you guys were in this world, you obviously would spend time on these sorts of things. They have different priorities.

  5. GeneralRincewind (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Oh sorry , must've missed that part about every leap year. And I thought I read that it was 400 years since the first visitors somewhere.

    The essential problem here is that so far nothing from everyday life has bled over into the New World(Forgot it's name,sorry(I'm bad with place names)) which cannot be with all the visitors and all their experience with modern objects. They don't even need to implement the stuff themselves , they just need to mention it once to some technical minded person and he will probably implement it himself.
    I still like your setting a lot, but this world inconsistency is kinda big and hard to miss.

  6. mooderino (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Can you give me some examples of things that you think would have bled over?

  7. GeneralRincewind (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Bicycles, newspaper, pens, binoculars, slang, English writing, sports like cricket, soccer and tennis, hindu arabic numerals, basic arithmetic and billboards. Those are all the ones I can think of at the moment, I'll edit this post if I think of more.

  8. TanaNari (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Let's see what algebra's good for...

    Well, Siege Engines, as an example. Superior construction technology (like anything taller than two stories that wasn't invented by trial and error, you'll need it).

    You're the one who had the main character "introduce" something as simple and obvious as freakin' archery ranges. As if no one and their uncle would have thought of that before.

    Or... I dunno... Freakin' GUNPOWDER!!! Black powder is charcoal, found everywhere. You just need wood, an oven, and a couple hours. Sulfur, also found everywhere (also known as Brimstone). And Saltpeter... well, you can get that by using a barrel as a toilet for a while. More common (barely) less disgusting you can find it in cave walls from bat or other animal wastes.

    Dunno about you. But if I lived in this world of monsters. My first, foremost, and possibly only goal would be the first man to possess explosives. I cannot imagine why "people trying to kill me" does anything but make that a higher priority.

    Then I'd use the most basic of algebra and chemistry, stuff learned in middle-school, to invent the first rockets. Screw swords when I can kill ogres with fireworks and mortar rounds. If it can die to a sharp stick, it will die to blowing up.

    Alternately... I'd royally screw up and explode into paste... there's always that... but that explosion would likely level a building, and in the process get the locals wondering just how *dangerous* our world is, when our *children* can build weapons of such power.

    Maybe the new arrivals aren't smart enough to know their own value. But *every local* would recognize that they possess wondrous, alien knowledge that could turn the tides of war with but an accidental slip of the tongue.

    In short: that's what modern humans, even the least competent amongst them, can do for these people.

    To say nothing of hobbyists who know how the Roman Legion fought (at least in theory)- tactics that can and will win almost any war, and all you need is a general who can listen to basic theory and turn it into valid strategy.

    Lots of medical knowledge- basic hygiene comes to mind, since the practice thereof pretty much instantly doubles your expectant lifespan and prevents plagues from wiping your cities. Is a thing, y'know.

    Unlikely anyone will know truly advanced metallurgy, but the steam engine is a real simple device that can be used to power what is essentially a defense turret. Or, well, gunpowder and cannon balls.

    These people would have muskets by now.

    And electricity. They would have electricity, almost without a doubt. Because the first thing I do after I can blow people up is windmills and water mills. They may or may not be hooked up to copper tubes.

    To say nothing of the modern concepts of capitalism, democracy, trade alliances, and the dignity of all (well, some) living things. They wouldn't really catch on as well... but trade alliances the likes of the modern world would form, especially as various arrivals from Earth and their offspring got together and formed their own communities.

    The locals would adapt our technology and at least the industrial parts of our way of life. Or they would be conquered by those who did. No exceptions. Well: one exception. The locals, by virtue of as yet unknown high end magic, win a war and kill everyone using the advanced tech, then issue a religious pogrom against all Terran technology as blasphemy.

    And even that would only delay the inevitable.

    Author of Price.
  9. Blaise Corvin (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    This conversation is why I continually pat myself on the back for making steel/iron/ferrous metals incredibly rare on the world of my story.

    ...And electricity banned by death.

    Bronze is expensive too.

    Before I wrote my story, I did a lot of research into what modern people would and would not be able to do in a world where steel was not available. So much of our infrastructure is dependent upon iron, it's really kind of profound.

    Once magic is thrown in the mix, suspension of disbelief takes over for the rest. It sounds like the OP might have given too many details without enough research. I give sparse details on purpose, but when I do give them, I make sure to include hints at how modern-thinking people have made a fantasy/medieval land less uncomfortable and disgusting. Basic hygiene is one of them. Another is farming stewardship programs and promotion of international commerce.

    I haven't explained in my story yet why firearms are rare. However, there is a logical (within the realm of my world) reason for it. And the /effects/ of firearms are replicated, they're just impossible to mass produce.

    World building is fun. :P

    Visit my site, http://www.blaise-corvin.com. I have punch and pie.
    I also have two stories: Delvers LLC and The Crimson Artifice. :)
  10. mooderino (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    @Blaise I've given hardly any details, most of the conversation here is based on conjecture and what would happen if this or that were true. It's all very helpful for me to work out what I need to put in/leave out as I continue the story. (Hi Blaise!)

    @TN - most of what you're saying makes sense, sort of, but doesn't feel unavoidable. "These people would have muskets by now" I would answer with "No they wouldn't." They could, sure, but not necessarily. It isn't inevitable. Of the hundred or so visitors from our world no one was that into gunpowder. Or if they were, maybe they blew themselves up and everyone lost interest in the crazy blow-your-own-head-off magic.

    BTW I'm not sure why you think basic stuff like medical hygiene and windmills haven't been invented. Or why their armies don't have strategy and tactics. Nothing so far indicates those things to be true.

  11. TanaNari (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Okay. In any possible scenario where the tech isn't actively being quashed, they would have muskets by now.

    And your story doesn't say "hundred or so"... it spells out the following... "Eight or more, every four years, for centuries" in the text.

    Even if we lowball to 100 years. Even if we ONLY have 8 a year (as opposed to the 20 from the current class). Even that is 200 or more. Over a century.

    If that century corresponds to our world, that's people who come from pre WW1 era all the way to modern era. That's time enough to see our technology evolve. That's time enough for their society to evolve.

    Terrans aren't new to these people. They aren't new to these peoples' grandparents. And if some did truly go on to become "legends"- that means they were powerful and had the resources to make the locals do what they want. Some of them would want the comforts of electricity and guns.

    They're clearly not using those wind/water mills to the potential that a modern person can use them. Even a lazy, stupid modern person. And they don't have Roman military tactics if a hoard of barbarians (reptilian or otherwise) constitute a valid threat on land. A Phalanx unit would decimate an undisciplined enemy.

    Any adult modern human- even older teens- could walk up to a king and say "I know how to build something that will end this war". It is up to you to explain why none have. And "I didn't want them to" isn't a valid answer. It has to be something that's internally consistent to the world as presented.

    .....

    "This conversation is why I continually pat myself on the back for making steel/iron/ferrous metals incredibly rare on the world of my story.

    ...And electricity banned by death.

    Bronze is expensive too."

    Now *that* is a valid move. Although if iron's incredibly rare, electricity is pretty much impossible to get. You need the electromagnets, and those require iron. Or a few exceedingly rare alternatives.

    "Before I wrote my story, I did a lot of research into what modern people would and would not be able to do in a world where steel was not available. So much of our infrastructure is dependent upon iron, it's really kind of profound."

    By which you mean "pretty much everything ever"... we can't even mine for most other metals without iron.

    "It sounds like the OP might have given too many details without enough research."

    No, it works on "standard medieval world that somehow has constant exposure to modern people without changing in any appreciable way"... which is just impossible...

    Author of Price.
  12. mooderino (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    "They're clearly not using those wind/water mills to the potential that a modern person can use them. Even a lazy, stupid modern person."
    I think you have a very hjgh opinion of lazy stupid people.

    "And they don't have Roman military tactics if a hoard of barbarians (reptilian or otherwise) constitute a valid threat on land. A Phalanx unit would decimate an undisciplined enemy."
    Since you don't know what happened at the border or how the lizardmen got past the army, what are you basing this knowledge on?

    "Any adult modern human- even older teens- could walk up to a king and say "I know how to build something that will end this war". "
    I disagree.I now plenty of adults who couldn't, so clearly 'any' is overstating it.

    Obviously you are looking at it in terms of how you think the world would develop, but that stuff isn't particularly of interest to me. No that I disagree with your points in general, but your statements that X would definitely happen or Y would be impossible are kind of odd in how sure you are about a world where you don't yet have all the information. Mind you neither do I, so maybe these things will be explained. Maybe not.

    I think you're going a bit overboard. Guns and electricity wouldn't definitely be invented, there are plenty of reasons why that might not happen. I do appreciate the interest you've shown in the story, but I don't feel swayed by your views on world building based on hypothetical insertion of anachronisms into primitive societies. I'm sure you still feel sure gunpowder would have been invented but I don't, and I don't think most readers will require an explanation why.

    I may of course change my mind when my comments are flooded with demands for an industrial revolution for the fairies and dragons.

  13. TanaNari (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    *Shrugs*

    A pity.

    Author of Price.
  14. GeneralRincewind (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    Hey mooderino, I actually agree with the fact that there shouldn't be too many modern things if only because it would ruin the setting, and any realism must come second to that.

    Having said that I would(personal opinion) think that there wold be billboards, leaflets, and posters , if only because they a) are common in the Modern World, b) really useful to any merchant for advertising and c) because it's easy to implement and some visitor definitively would have recommended something akin to that over the years. You can actually still add that in the world since not all of it has been explored and so some places could have modern ideas like that. Thats just my two cents.

  15. mooderino (Member)

    Posted 3 years ago

    I think there are some of those things already. When Colin was a wanted man there were posters of him everywhere so they clearly have the ability to do it. Colin isn't necessarily the most observant narrator though. Bit too much of a shoe-gazer.

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